RichWilabee
Senior Member
Posts: 256
Loc: Cerritos, CA about 16 mi...
Reg: 11-20-04
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 03-20-06 05:30 AM - Post#71944
If you were going to get one of the Bergen Gas Models for fun flying which one would it be. 3D not important. Also which options would you get. Would you upgrade to the fiberglass Canopy.
Rich
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larrytoelle
Full Time Senior Member
Posts: 3735
Loc: Fort Jones, California .....
Reg: 01-20-03
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03-20-06 03:09 PM - Post#71948
In response to RichWilabee
Howdy Rich,
We haven't yakked for a while ... last time was on the electric forum ... as I recall. How ya been?
Just having gone through what you're asking ... perhaps I can share my experiences.
I shopped around for almost a year, in search of a gasser. It all got down to three ... the Bergen, X-Cell (G-Spec) and Carbon Predator. All seem to be good birds ... but all three had their strengths and weaknesses. I don't think any of the three would be a disappointment.
I ended up with an Intrepid EB ... the EB part isn't that big of a deal ... but it does give you some options that the others don't ... namely ... you can fly larger 800+ blades and perhaps lift a bit more. It does come with a minus however ... it's noticeably tail heavy ... and you'll probably have to carry around some lead. On this one, 6 sub-c cells and 12 ounces of lead seem to balance it out. The tail boom and gear box on the EB are humongous.
I also got the slab sided fiberglass canopy ... the one without the cheeks. I refer to it as the "canopy from hell" ... so ... read into that anything you wish. I'm not much of a modeler, so some of it might be me ... but ...
This bird is, without any doubt, the best bird I've ever owned or flown. I have a couple of x-cells, and thought they were pretty hard to beat ... but ... this Bergen is simply better built, stronger, and better engineered. It's not as pretty as the x-cell, but it's more substantial ... in signficant ways.
As for flying characteristics, I haven't gotten a gallon through it yet ... but ... from the first flight ... it just felt good ... predictable, steady, powerful and precise. I finally managed to get out with it yesterday, and really hammer on it for the first time ... and it's a definite WOW ... it can 3D with the best of them. At 1550 head speed, its performance is amazing ... especially when you consider the weight of a gasser ... these birds are not light ... any of them.
As for options, there aren't many. I might want the constant tail drive, the only option I believe, that this one doesn't have. The EB seems to come pretty loaded up with everything you'd want. Everything is bearinged, the G-10 composite sideframes are incredibly strong, I believe as strong as CF and more resilient. There's not much plastic anywhere, mostly steel, aluminum and G-10 ... no plastic where it matters. The head assembly is a piece of art, not real shiny or blingy ... just quality craftsmanship and strong. The engine/frame integration is mucho stronger than the others ... something that you have to look close to appreciate. The tail is beefy, to say the least. Everything fits, and it's a pleasure to work on ... present canopy excepted. The control system is exceptional ... zero interaction ... anywhere ... no CCPM farting around.
Of the three birds, I'd call this one the "industrial strength" variety. The X-Cell is probably the "beauty" and the Century "Loyal Jane."
Good luck with your pursuit ... and keep us posted on your progress.
LT
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RichWilabee
Senior Member
Posts: 256
Loc: Cerritos, CA about 16 mi...
Reg: 11-20-04
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03-20-06 11:46 PM - Post#71951
In response to larrytoelle
Hi Larry....
We haven't yakked in a while. I've been following your progress and BK's progress on the forum with the Bergen. The upgrades I was wondering about were listed on their web site they are: Other options available include constant driven tail system, main shaft thrust bearing block, and a push-pull system for the tail servo. I'm not to sure about the EB since I just want it for fun flying and maybe I wouldn't need as much nose weight. Which Gyro are you going to run.
Rich
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ChrisBergen
Member
Posts: 89
Reg: 02-09-05
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03-21-06 04:04 AM - Post#71954
In response to RichWilabee
Regardless of style of flying, you still need to balance the heli.
Understand that the EB stands for "Extended Boom". Where the heli balanced perfectly in it's standard form, we now have extended the boom and added the heavy duty gearbox.
So that means it needs nose weight added to balance the heli on the main shaft.
Also realize that this isn't like a Raptor, where every ounce counts. This thing can carry some weight with those big blades. The added nose weight makes very little difference as far as performance is concerned.
Chris Bergen
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Anonymous
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03-21-06 04:21 AM - Post#71955
In response to ChrisBergen
My own bad karma notwithstanding, I did think the EB was a pretty nifty piece of helicopter. It flies in a graceful manner that no smaller bird will ever accomplish.
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larrytoelle
Full Time Senior Member
Posts: 3735
Loc: Fort Jones, California .....
Reg: 01-20-03
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03-21-06 02:50 PM - Post#71961
In response to RichWilabee
Howdy Rich,
Chris's point is important ... this bird weighs something like 15-16 pounds. A few ounces here and there won't be noticed.
I would think the decision between standard boom and extended boom would depend a lot on what you plan on using the bird for. Personally, I wanted to fart around with a camera platform some ... and the EB seemed like it might lift more weight and have better flight characteristics. Like you, I was concerned the 800 blades would slow things down, but Chris and others told me that's not necessarily so. I think they're right ...
Currently, I've got two head speeds set ... one at 1450 that seem like it might be a bit more stable in hover, but at 1550 this thing really flies sweet and has plenty of quickness.
With parts from BK and a new backing plate from Chris, I managed to goober together a push-pull tail. Did it make a difference? ... Who knows? The tail on this ... 120mm blades ... is rock solid anyway ... so probably not ... but it looks serious ... and I'd imagine it'll help with tail servo wear.
I definitely would want the mainshaft thrust bearing ... this bird already had it, but if it hadn't, I would've ordered it. There's a lot of weight hanging on that bearing ... without it ... I'd be concerned about the loads on the simple radial bearings. Chris would know more about that than I would ... but ... I wouldn't leave home without it. I don't have the constant drive tail ... but would like one. (That's not an order Chris ...) I'll order one later, when I finally scrape my wife off of the ceiling after the initial purchase.
As for servos ... I went with the 8311 servo ... so far ... so good. I'd guess the 8611 would be overkill ... but ... they're supposed to be one heck of a servo. You do need "heavy duty" servos ... something over 100 oz. The 8311 is a "proven" servo for this bird, so I'm comfortable with it.
For gyro, I'm using a G-500T and 8700 on the tail. These dialed right in and I'm very happy with the tail's response. I'm going to try different tail blades and see if I can make things even better ... but ... I have no complaints out back. The 401 or 601 are probably used more, but I've got a thing about JR ... confidence.
I've got some video tape of this bird carrying a camera this weekend ... I'll try to get it edited and up on the internet later this week. This is all new for me, so I'm still learning how cameras, video editing, etc work ... so it'll take me some time.
Rich ... this is an exciting bird to own and fly ... at least for this old fart. It has a "shock and awe" factor that has to be seen to be believed. You simply can't believe that something this heavy and large can be that agile and light ... while giving stability and precision.
LT
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RichWilabee
Senior Member
Posts: 256
Loc: Cerritos, CA about 16 mi...
Reg: 11-20-04
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03-22-06 12:30 AM - Post#71967
In response to larrytoelle
Thanks for all the great info everyone. Hey LT what didn't you like about the fiberglass canopy.
Rich
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larrytoelle
Full Time Senior Member
Posts: 3735
Loc: Fort Jones, California .....
Reg: 01-20-03
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03-22-06 01:47 AM - Post#71970
In response to RichWilabee
Howdy Rich,
Well ... where to start?
First off ... one side of it had a large dent ... molded into it. It took a couple of trips to the bondo can to get it fixed and flat.
The seam between the two halves was off center ... a large crease had to be filled.
Four molded holes that mount the canopy were off by 3/8 of an inch between the two halves. Of course, I just went ahead and drilled through the holes to fit the grommets ... then had to re-fiberglass and fill the holes to drill holes in the correct position. Of course, this was after it was painted.
Generally, the canopy was a POS ... not gelcoated ... not finished ... rough ... and just not the quality that I'd expect from Bergen. Then of course, was my own ineptness at painting ... right now it's paint job #4.
In the future ... I'm going to buy canopies already fitted and painted ... the aggravation isn't worth it. I'm just not a modeler ...
Chris indicates there is another batch on order ... so hopefully ... these newer canopies are a bit better.
LT
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RichWilabee
Senior Member
Posts: 256
Loc: Cerritos, CA about 16 mi...
Reg: 11-20-04
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03-22-06 03:19 AM - Post#71973
In response to larrytoelle
LT
Where do you get canopies already fitted and painted for the Bergen.
Rich
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ChrisBergen
Member
Posts: 89
Reg: 02-09-05
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03-22-06 04:08 AM - Post#71975
In response to RichWilabee
Rickosplace.com can paint them for you. Rick is very familiar with our canopies and their requirements for mounting.
I am going to try to keep some painted canopies handy here at the shop.
Gary Travis also has a friend who is painting canopies for us, and can do requests up to a point.
Chris Bergen
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larrytoelle
Full Time Senior Member
Posts: 3735
Loc: Fort Jones, California .....
Reg: 01-20-03
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03-22-06 01:41 PM - Post#71989
In response to RichWilabee
Howdy Rich,
Personally, I was thinking of Arizona Heli ...
http://www.arizonaheli.com/painted_canopies.htm#Bergen%20Gasser
But Chris's sources are probably ok also ... I'm not an expert on canopies ... in fact ... I hate the damned things.
LT
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