OLD COOT
New Member
Posts: 21
Reg: 07-21-04
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 07-23-04 01:14 PM - Post#47268
If you are getting bad woofs or blade flutter with your V1 30 or 50 Raptor here is what you can do to fix it for certain. I bet if you check it carefully your spindle, head, and blade grip bearing system preload is very loose. Even when the spindle nuts are bottomed out completely. The barrels on the spindle, the ones pressing against the dampers, were originally designed to develop preload against the dampers. On the V1 heads this arrangement simply did not work out as intended. They are all too sloppy, and will not dampen the blade flutter at higher RPM's while flying. Higher rotor RPM's stretch the plastic a bit when flying, and the V1 head systems get even more sloppy in flight. And consequently the problem gets worse as the rotor RPM is increased above 1700 or so.
If you wiggle the grips a little on the spindle without blades on it, do they move up and down a little very easy? If so I suggest you shim them a little. You do this by placing one extra washer on each side of the spindle, between the barrels against the dampers. One on each side of the barrel which rides against the dampers. You will need two identical washers placed over the spindle against the dampers, before you put the barrel and blade grips back on. As you tighten the spindle nuts now, they should start to load the dampers on each side, the last few turns of the nuts on the spindle.
To check that the washers you used were the right thickness, and that you have developed the correct preload to eliminate the flutter, feather the blade grips while pulling out hard on them. Do this after the spindle nuts are tightened down completely. You should feel a little bit of bearing drag now on each blade grip, if the washer size you used on each side of the spindle was correct. You can feel this drag while at feathering the blade grips without the blades on yet. Too thick on the washers, and the grip drag is a lot. To thin of a set of washers used, and they feather on the grip bearings almost like you did nothing. You must end up with a little grip bearing drag, when feathering the bearings. As much as you can be comfortable with. A used set of bearings will even get a little notchy sometimes, when checking them after the washers are added. It will be fine when the helicopter is in flight, here is why.
Some drag on each grip is what you are shooting for when the spindle nuts are completely tightened down. It is what you must have after the washers are inserted so the system is riding firmly against the dampers. It means that the washer thickness used was correct, and now the grip barrels are firmly pre loaded against the washers, and the washers are firmly loaded against the dampers. In flight the blade weight is enormous, and the plastic in the system streaches a bit. This creates even more slop in the system, and it develops to much slop again when in flight. The drag on the grips in flight is almost completely gone while flying. But a little grip load must remain even when in flight for the damper system to do one of the jobs it was intended to do.
This is to prevent the blade grip instability that loose grips on the spindle systems create. The slop is what causes the woof blade flutter on the V1 raptor heads. The washer preload while flying is what will prevent blade system woof flutter on the raptor. The system now works the way it was originally intented to work. Thunder Tiger essentually does exactly the same thing on the new V2 head assembley. You are really making the V1 head, as tight as the V2 head by using this method.
Again this is just a suggestion. It will work if you glue the grip bearings with ca to tighten them a little, on the outer races of the carrier bearings in each grip. Then add the right set of washers to develop a preload against the dampers the last few turns of the spindle nuts. A standard set of dampers are soft and collaspe quite a bit, so if it is a little tight to start with a stock set of dampers not to worry. They will mold to the washers in a flight or two.
You can also flip the blade grips if you like. I and many other people have a number of V1's and V2's running this way with the grips either way and we see no difference. And the woofs are gone for good with any set of rotor blades now. A V2 head is tighter so you only need to use a very thin set of plastic blade washers on those if you happen to have one a little loose for preload against the dampers. The V2 grips are tight when the bearings are in them usually, so they have never needed any CA glue to tighten a V2 grip bearing up. Just thin plastic washers against the dampers, when they are loose on damper preload and woof a little.
Good luck with whatever you do. Try the typical solutions first. If they don't work out, use the glue on the grip bearings, and washers over the spindle against the dampers. I'll bet if you glue the bearings and use the right thickness washers, the thing won't ever woof anymore. And the head, grip, and spindle damper assembly will now be tighter as well. And the helicopter will even fly 3D for you a little cleaner.
Staraero1
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Foxden
New Member
Posts: 7
Loc: Port Charlotte, FL
Reg: 07-22-04
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07-24-04 03:18 AM - Post#47338
In response to OLD COOT
YO OC,
Do I need to go find Alexander or was it Colin or maybe Steven on RR and tell them we need to start the woof woof thread again 
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Anonymous
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07-24-04 03:55 AM - Post#47348
In response to Foxden
Ahhhh, that shim stuff is no good.
If you want to fix your problem, you gottta flip the grips. I heard Colin say it once, so it must be true. 
Uneven pirouette rate? Flip the grips.
Need more cyclic authority? Flip the grips.
Trouble with your needle settings? Flip the grips.
Crash your heli? Buy a crash kit... but then flip the grips!
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Topcat
Senior Member
Posts: 905
Loc: NW Indiana
Reg: 12-10-02
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07-24-04 04:39 AM - Post#47356
In response to Kitch
or just buy a raptor v2 head assembly. it iwll fit nicely in a V1 Rappy
| I Only Do What the Voices in My Head tell Me to Do
Bergen 50
Spectra G
Os 50 Hyper
Futaba 9CHP Super
R149 DP
Futaba 401/9254
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OLD COOT
New Member
Posts: 21
Reg: 07-21-04
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07-24-04 05:22 AM - Post#47361
In response to Topcat
Some Raptor V2 30 and 50's still need a set of plastic blade washers inserted here and there. This happens once in a while in order to clean a V2 head up as well. However, every V2 head assembly could benefit from a set of plastic washer inserts. This helps to clean up the head response performance, if nothing else.
In the V2 head design the woof problems are corrected about 90 percent of the time, over the old V1 head design. But those heads are not 100 percent correct for damper preload in some cases. They still experience a woof here and there on occasion, if you happen to have one that came a little too loose from the factory.
OC Bob
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OLD COOT
New Member
Posts: 21
Reg: 07-21-04
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07-24-04 05:47 AM - Post#47365
In response to OLD COOT
You know those two guys were a funny pair. The kid seemed pretty nice at first. Then he got a little carried away with his flying and importance.
Fast and furious flames will always burn out quickly. I actually wish that boy luck with his flying career. I watched one of his first flying recordings early on. He was pretty rough in it, but he also appeared to have the right moves in it. I told him this as well some time ago.
With the right equipment, and some real discipline, I felt he could do pretty well on the circuit long term. Now he will most likely become a pretty good flier, but not a great flier. There is no restraint or discipline in him. Just a desire to show off.
Oh well so it goes. I am just happy we don't have those constant posts from them two which were only put up to disagree with everyone here. No one will ever benefit in the long run from their sort of self serving nonsense.
Now what should we discuss? How about who had the best crash lately, and what excuse did you use to justify it? How about you Warren? I see you did not get blown out on your screen name here. You are the only senior member here now. You had any good wrecks lately?
OC Bob
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Crash
Senior Member
Posts: 519
Loc: East Lansing, MI.
Reg: 10-14-03
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07-24-04 07:09 AM - Post#47373
In response to OLD COOT
OC Bob
Quote:
You know those two guys were a funny pair. The kid seemed pretty nice at first.
I think they were too. I never got over the way every one here chided them.
Quote:
Oh well so it goes. I am just happy we don't have those constant posts from them two which were only put up to disagree with everyone here. No one will ever benefit in the long run from their sort of self serving nonsense.
If people did not disagree, we would not need forums.
This surely is a good time to invite them back.
I think you're cool OC. 
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Anonymous
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07-24-04 12:30 PM - Post#47384
In response to Crash
Quote:
If people did not disagree, we would not need forums.
I disagree (sic). Where else would you get The Uncle Buddy Show? That alone is worth the price of admission.
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airbrush dude-2
New Member
Posts: 15
Reg: 07-22-04
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07-24-04 12:51 PM - Post#47387
In response to Kitch
well, where is it?
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Anonymous
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07-24-04 01:59 PM - Post#47395
In response to airbrush dude-2
End-of-season haitus. 
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OLD COOT
New Member
Posts: 21
Reg: 07-21-04
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07-24-04 02:43 PM - Post#47402
In response to Kitch
Hi Crash,
No one ever chased or barred those two guys from the Rotory forum here, as I understand it. They just could not take the heated responses their posts generated, and simply flew the coop.
I got no axe to grind with the kid anyway. As I wrote, I even felt he had that special something when it came to flying RC helicopters. I once saw an early video clip of him throwing a Raptor helicopter around. He was rough in it, but showed some moves in that video that required perfect flying reflexes to do them. I even wrote and told him he looked like he might have the knack for flying RC helicopters well.
I also never take exception to people who disagree with me. I do take exception to anyone that attempts to impose their will on me. Can't be used on me with any degree of success, not one chance in hell. These sort of imposing positions show either ignorance, or arrogance, but nothing more.
With that said, again no one here to my knowledge chased these guys, and I don't think Rotory barred them from posting. I seem to remember they left on their own, simply because the responses to their posts got too hot for them to stomach. I do remember something else about they tried to register here again with a different screen name. This was so they could go at people again with the different screen name. Someone on here caught on to it, but I really don't remember any of the details surrounding that issue.
Incedentily, I also think they are lurking around here again somewhere. Just a guess.
OC Bob
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alexander
Senior Member
Posts: 921
Reg: 12-20-02
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07-24-04 02:56 PM - Post#47406
In response to OLD COOT
I gotta come back here every once and a while
Here OC, is a later clip (5 weeks ago, although I missed a lot of maneuvers..will have a better one soon). http://www.freepgs.com/bradyflys/COLIN HELI 2004.mpeg
(right click and save target as)
OC, I have never tried to show off or brag, I just take a stand on my opinion. Braging would be saying something like "I can out fly Curtis" or "I'm the best guy around here" etc.
Quote:
If you want to fix your problem, you gottta flip the grips. I heard Colin say it once, so it must be true.
Uneven pirouette rate? Flip the grips.
Need more cyclic authority? Flip the grips.
Trouble with your needle settings? Flip the grips.
Crash your heli? Buy a crash kit... but then flip the grips!
So if I say it, it is wrong, but if you or OC say it, it's true? Must be because you're older then me? I don't disagree with OC's mod, I'm sure it works, the grip flip is just another proven option. What makes the grip flip wrong buddy?...I'd love an explanation, maybe you could teach me?
According to Bob there are lots of happy people with his mod, there are also lots of people happy with the grip flip, so which one is right? There is no "right" way, if they both work, they both work, have fun and go fly 
Colin
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ATX
New Member
Posts: 16
Loc: Cookeville, TN
Reg: 07-22-04
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07-24-04 06:22 PM - Post#47416
In response to alexander
Blow it out your A**--flip the grips
Bankrupt--flip the grips
Can't get the ladies--flip the grips
Impotence--flip the grips
When you get tired of flipping the grips go order a Stinger head from Gohbee and put it on. At least they put the friggin flybar on the right side of the rotor head. I thought ya'll weren't coming back?
TM
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OC Bob2
New Member
Posts: 21
Reg: 07-23-04
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07-24-04 06:30 PM - Post#47417
In response to alexander
He's Back, and in full force.
I am not the only one here who disagress with you Colin. About a great many things. Just because you say so, doesn't make it right either. You don't clearly understand that a discussion goes both ways yet. However, I am certain you soon will.
Incedently, I did just look at your recent video. Very very good, however it is most likely only half of the flying potential you are capable of.
In any case, I guess my woof post here is on the way to the funny farm once again.
OC Bob
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alexander
Senior Member
Posts: 921
Reg: 12-20-02
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07-24-04 07:07 PM - Post#47420
In response to OC Bob2
Quote:
Just because you say so, doesn't make it right either
I know, I didn't say that though. Same go's for anyone.
Funny farm.....nah. I've been away from rotory for a while..gonna try a fresh start. Like I said I missed a lot of maneuvers in that flight...next video
Do the grip flip or the washer mod, either way you get away from those darn woofs! And that's what matters.
Colin
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OC Bob2
New Member
Posts: 21
Reg: 07-23-04
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07-24-04 09:25 PM - Post#47423
In response to alexander
Very good Colin. You are civil for a change. I can deal with you adopting this attitude. Any day of the week. If you don't agree with me or anyone else, that is entierly your priviledge.
A forum used for good debates is healthy and informative for everyone, me included. When it becomes a pissing match the information gets tainted, and no one really can benefit from it's total impact.
The end game is that we all have a good time, help each other when ever possible, and above all hope no one gets hurt. The rest is really acidemic anyway.
OC Bob
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Anonymous
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07-24-04 09:31 PM - Post#47426
In response to ATX
Quote:
I thought ya'll weren't coming back?
That makes two of us. I thought he "no longer wanted his name associated with the forum".
Oh well... nothing lasts forever.
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alexander
Senior Member
Posts: 921
Reg: 12-20-02
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07-24-04 09:52 PM - Post#47431
In response to Kitch
Quote:
Very good Colin. You are civil for a change. I can deal with you adopting this attitude. Any day of the week. If you don't agree with me or anyone else, that is entierly your priviledge.
A forum used for good debates is healthy and informative for everyone, me included. When it becomes a pissing match the information gets tainted, and no one really can benefit from it's total impact.
The end game is that we all have a good time, help each other when ever possible, and above all hope no one gets hurt. The rest is really acidemic anyway.
OC Bob
This side of the party feels the same  as for adopting a new atitude...I came here to rotory in the first place with the same one...stuff just got too heated. Hope discussions stay like this all the time!
Quote:
That makes two of us. I thought he "no longer wanted his name associated with the forum".
I said I'd come back when/if things cooled off, since rotory is pretty much starting again....I thought I'd give it a shot.
Colin
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airbrush dude-2
New Member
Posts: 15
Reg: 07-22-04
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07-25-04 12:02 AM - Post#47445
In response to alexander
as long as you check your attitude at the door it's all good.
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Foxden
New Member
Posts: 7
Loc: Port Charlotte, FL
Reg: 07-22-04
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07-25-04 01:02 AM - Post#47446
In response to airbrush dude-2
Brush Meister,
Been out flying much since the weather up north has finally gotten better?
We've been out every weekend since I got back into flying last Sept.
Been flying my latest addition to the fleet a Predator Gasser SE with a Hansen modified 26. Man-O-Man it's a blast to fly.
Cya,
Clyde
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